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Vista is bad for gamers
Sunday, 04 May, 2008
My friends and I gather semi-weekly for on-line multiplayer games, and ever since some of our participants "upgraded" to Vista, we've seen a host of yet-to-be-resolved problems.
 We started playing Call of Duty 2, and most of the Vista users were unable to run it. Eventually we managed to find fixes/workarounds for most of the rigs, but our Vista players still crash 3-4 times per night, and the XP ones run as smooth as butter.
Since then we've tried to add the games FarCry and NOLF2 to our rotation, but our Vista users are having too many problems with those titles. A reinstall is fruitless, compatibility mode does nothing, and new video/sound drivers have no effect. These are not state-of-the-art games, but they're not old DOS-based games-- they were released during the XP years.
Vista apologists love to blame the third-parties -- to suggest that manufacturers must release Vista-compatible drivers, and software makers should release patches. But the fault lies with MS because they failed to make an OS that supported the drivers and software which functioned normally in XP -- they broke their own OS/driver standards. These third parties are understandably reluctant to spend resources writing Vista drivers and software patches for discontinued products, because there's no profit in it. Consequently, perfectly good software/hardware is rendered useless by Microsoft's poor development and bad choices.
Maybe MS will get it straightened out with a couple service packs, but *today*, for my purposes, Vista is a turd.
Alan Bellows, Pastrami, Utah, USA
 Well put Alan. I'm one of the "Vista apologists" but I also recognise that there are many problems such as the ones you've listed. If Microsoft had its time over again I wonder what it would do differently with Vista. I guess that one of the main problems with launching a new operating system is deciding how compatible it has to be with existing hardware and software. It seems inevitable that just about every "improvement" the designers want to make is also a potential incompatibility.
Without a doubt most hardware and software manufacturers would like to start again every few years. That is.goo back to scratch and design something from the ground up. But you can imagine the screams if they did that. I presume that Microsoft thought Vista was a good compromise. Indeed for some users it is. But of course for many people, such as you and your friends, it isn't.
Microsoft has always been criticised because of the number of vulnerabilities in its software so it's little winder that Vista has improved safety, and this is just one of the things that gets in the way. Networking can be a real problem to get going, for example.
I'd suspect that you and your friends are quite knowledgeable when it comes to computers, so if you can't solve the problems, they probably can't be solved (or not yet anyway).
I guess that the easiest way to overcome the problem is to convince your Vista-using friends to either dual-boot their PC's with XP as well as Vista, or to even build themselves a dedicated gaming PC based on XP.
Can I even suggest something radical? (And not being a gamer myself, perhaps this is already done.)
Why not decide on a set of specs for a gaming PC and all build or buy PC's to those specs. That is, since you're playing together why not eliminate the differences in hardware and software and play exclusively on the differences in skill and tactics? You could use the same motherboard, processor, RAM and graphics card. And of course, you'd all use XP I guess.
PS: Are you allowed to say "turd" in Utah? Here in Sydney Australia one alternative euphemism is "blind mullet" and another is "Bondi cigar" but that had more to do with the bad old days of "waste management". :-) Paul Zucker
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Chris WhitePosted: 10/05/2008 re: Vista is bad for gamers Just purchased a notebook from Dick Smith Electronics for $1900 - Toshiba Satellite A200 (Vista Home Premium).
I installed Vista Service Pack 1, Office 2007, all available Vista and Office 2007 updates.
I installed my Security software(all freeware versions plus updates).
I removed one stick of RAM and installed a 2Gig stick (total 3 GBs).I downloaded the latest ATI Catalyst Driver 8.4 and using DH Mobility Modder installed it. The Windows Experience Index for Memory, Graphics and Gaming Graphics all improved. Alls well.
I installed the following games... Crysis, Call Of Duty 4: Modern Warfare, STALKER, Unreal Tournament 3, Unreal Tournament 2004 & 2003, Far Cry, FEAR, Quake 4, Quake 3, Doom 3, Riddick, Return To Castle Wolfenstein, Aquanox, Rise Of Nations, Age Of Empires II and III and Age Of Mythology. In short all of the fave games I played with Windows 2000 and XP.
Some games required installation of patches to work properly BUT most were already required for use with 2000 and XP!
I have'nt had any game session crash on me yet apart from another program/process (Antivirus, Firewall, Web Camera software, auto spyware scan, etc) interfering (I configured and corrected as necessary).
When gaming I dont turn off Aero...cant be bothered.
Only Crysis had to be tweaked between Low to Medium settings. It still looks WOW and on a notebook...I ran its internal benchmark and averaged GPU - 33 FPS. I'm overjoyed!
(Do you know your problem Chris? You're a sensible user who is prepared to do the obvious, sensible things to keep your new PC on-track. Nothing fancy. A few tweaks (most automatic I'd guess). You tried things and found that most worked. If they didn't you looked around and found the fixes. That's your problem - you're sensible. Keep up the good work. I'd be interested to know if Vista Ultimate would suit you even better. -PZ) Carlo SchisanoPosted: 09/05/2008 re: Vista is bad for gamers Hey Larry,
I know what you mean about 98. I too have one of my favourite games (Re-Volt) that does not run on XP. However, the sheer headache of doing a fresh install of 98 only to get constant error messages from the start outweighs the benefit of having it installed in the first place. Maybe one day I will be bothered in trying another disc to see whether that may be the issue. CherylPosted: 09/05/2008 re: Vista is bad for gamers From reading the posts the real solution seems to suggested by Paul and Larry Jentz, dual booting so you can play the not so old games designed for XP.
Vista is here now and they are already talking about the next version so the problem will be occurring in the future with the newer version of Windows and Vista. As it has all through Windows changes.
Where would we be without the challenges and variety of computers and operating systems? Nothing to complain or brag about. lol cumagutzaPosted: 09/05/2008 re: Vista is bad for gamers When I first got Vista I tried installing my favourite turn-based game. It ran like a three-legged racehorse. When I investigated, I was told in a forum to look at installing DirectX 9.0c. I thought that would retrograde DirectX 10 in Vista, BUT, I was told that Vista can run both simultaneously. Apparently you can have both installed at the same time.
I have Win XP system as well so I have two computers at my desk. The XP system runs my game (beautifully) while at the same time I can surf the net, etc on the Vista machine (like Larry Jentz). The Win XP machine is not connected to the internet so it does not need to have antivirus, antispyware, hardware and software updaters, Windows Updates or any of the other ancillary JUNK running in the background. I love it!
Anyway, investigate installing DirectX 9.0c if you want to run your older games on Vista.
Matt ChrisPosted: 08/05/2008 re: Vista is bad for gamers This is not about gaming and drivers, but about old hardware, Vista and drivers. Thought you might find it interesting. I have an old Canon BJC 255SP printer. XP comes with drivers for it, but Vista does not. It does have drivers for BJC 265. This driver makes a mess of printing (lines chopped off at the ends etc) so I downloaded a BJC 255SP driver for XP and installed it in Vista. Surprise! Surprise! It works just fine. Printer problems solved. The old Canon is good for a few more years yet. Of course it might be too risky to try this approach with XP drivers for video cards. Still you never know. JeffPosted: 07/05/2008 re: Vista is bad for gamers hmm,ive had multiple problems also playing battlefield 2142 online using vista,however when a friend of mine(who by the way has an intellectual disorder)suggested running any game or application using your administrator status to run the game(right click-run as administrator)this one piece of advice has been the ticket for hassle free gaming for me,also make sure to research the server(if using online gaming,and choose a server who originates in your country to minimise ping related booting from the server,also if you are being ejected by punkbuster,download updates/patches from punkbuster as well.cheers and happy gaming from zephyrazash. Larry JentzPosted: 07/05/2008 re: Vista is bad for gamers Hey Carlo, 98 had its problems like all microsoft programs but at least it played any game put into it. Weather it be DOS or windows or online games they all played. Go figure this one, one game i have will install and play on XP fine but reboot or close down the computer and it wont run, even in compatability mode unless you install it again. Works fine on 95,98,ME. Yet to try it on Vista. Just shows all windows have glitches of some type. Never used Mac and dont have the weeks of patience needed to get Linux versions programmed and configured. Keith Posted: 06/05/2008 re: Vista is bad for gamers Technology advances, would you accept a "T"Model ford engine in your new Falcon or complain when the headlight you bought for your FJ holden wont fit your new Commodore. If the game wont run on Vista, don't use it run XP and be happy. Dont blame Microsoft because the aftermarket manufacture dosen't keep up. Carlo SchisanoPosted: 05/05/2008 re: Vista is bad for gamers See...this is what I meant in my last post about Vista. Larry Jentz provides a good example. He knows what to expect from the OS, and plans accordingly. Noone pretends Vista can make the coffee for you in the morning or have your children. Every OS has it's shortfalls...but for God's sake Larry...not Windows 98...I'd rather a Mac or Linux PC! JeffPosted: 05/05/2008 re: Vista is bad for gamers Done,PZ.
What do I know about typing,anyway?
Never had any lessons,with it.
Anyway,this window does not provide much scope, by which to stress any point, to clarify a course of action to be taken,does it?
If I type Upper Case,I'm 'shouting'.
Any other way,people don't get point...unless highlighted,in some manner.
If you tick me off...for the bad typing.....tick off those who 'text-type', like they're using a mobile-phone,too.
I can't understand them,either.
As for that 'lemon' bit,PZ..hehehee,that's my description....of Vista.
Their use of the English language is far worse than mine.
(Look again Jeff. Put a space AFTER punctuation such as a comma. -PZ) RussellPosted: 05/05/2008 re: Vista is bad for gamers Alan,
Maybe its.....planned redundancy by all parties to force sales of each product...hardware, software etc ???
Russell
(Yes Russell, planned redundancy does exist, but perhaps this isn't a good example. Those printers that cost the same as a replacement set of cartridges are. -PZ) JeffPosted: 05/05/2008 re: Vista is bad for gamers (Jeff. If you read this, could you do a couple of things to make your posts more readable please. Use a space after punctuation and outside brackets and parantheses. This is a general rule for all posters. Thanks. -PZ)
Allan,could you have a 'chat'(talk)..with your "Gamers Group"?
To see if they all are using 'Dual Core' computer set-ups........'variations' of,that is (with Vista,I think they,and you,are)?
Although I am not a true Gamer myself, I have a Vista-compatiable set-up (a "Dual-Core" one,with XP Pro)....and,I play Command & Conquer :'Tiberian Sun'...with it.
It (C&C:Tiberian Sun) fails(occasionally,always with the same 'error'.......'a hungapp'.
I believe that it (the Dual Core CPU) may be the 'source'...of most of your Group's 'problems',too.
"C&C:Tiberian Sun"......was designed,in the 'era' of Single-Core CPUs.....to work 'to perfection',from being used in the 1st CD-ROM bay(most of us are now using a DVD-ROM there,these days,with a DVD 'burner' underneath).
It (C&C:Tiberian Sun)...will work,in the 2nd bay,'but'?
It really does not matter 'which' bay is used....C&C:Tiberian Sun fails(equally,both).
The rest of my System is 'sound'...and,capable of handling everything I do 'throw at it'(just like you and your friends do,with yours).
That idea of PZ's is a great one,for 'dedicated gamers' like you and your friends....of building 'exact spec's machines'...to play together on.
But,to do so,ultimately,what does that really say about Microsoft's Vista?
Exactly what you (your friends/PZ/other Vista 'dissentors'/myself included) are saying!
Microsoft really 'sold us a lemon'...with Vista!
You (others) will be 'out of pocket'('at your own expense!',yet again......to 'perfect' a 'gaming platform'....you all can use (without any 'crashes',whatsoever)!
When you already had one (a working 'Single-Core'),with XP Pro/Home!?!
Building any sort of an Operating System,well,......there has to be a 'ceiling' somewhere along the line,where we can go no further.
I think Microsoft has 'hit' theirs! With Vista!
And,yeah,Allan,I do have one of those ( my old 2.8Ghz 'single-core' AGP'ed computer)....just sitting around,too.
(C&C:Tiberian Sun does work perfectly on it......which is 'why' I asked my question,in the first place.)
(No, I didn;t say that Vista was a lemon Jeff. Problems yes, lemon no. -PZ) Larry JentzPosted: 05/05/2008 re: Vista is bad for gamers As a fan of Windows 98se for games my latest computer being a Gigabyte P35 chipset with pci express i cant run 98 or even ME, not that i want ME. so i run XP on one hard drive for most games but a couple of my old favorites wont run on XP. So does this mean XP is a no hoper and a turd. Not to the people who play those online games that wont run on Vista. is a roundabout we are all on going in never ending circles of upgrading to satisfy Microsoft and the games and hardware manfacturers are happy to run along behind them like well trained little doggies because it means more sales and profits for them as well. I have now purchased Vista home premium but was wise enough to install on a second hard drive and all is working perfectly. Purchased an Acedemic upgrade version and saved about $100 off the regular version and is the same product. Had one hardware compatability issue but Vista advised how to fix the problem and all well. Now i will continue to use XP for the games and Vista for internet and online banking for the extra security. One question remains, when will the 98 hackers come up with driver fixes to allow 98 on pci express and current chipset mobos, WOW it would be a fast machine then.
Frank WoerlePosted: 05/05/2008 re: Vista is bad for gamers And another Windows in the pipeline, "GOD HELP US".
Frank ;) |